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 Post subject: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Master Subaphile
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:06 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: North Ogden, Utah
I have a vague understanding of how it works. What do you have to do to your car to get an anti-lag set up? I would also think this would put your turbo under huge stress. I'm (obviously) not going to be doing this anytime in the foreseeable future, but I just thought some anti-lag discussion would be interesting and informative.

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WRB STi - FP68hta turbo, Perrin FMIC, Prodrive 18" wheels, 800cc injectors etc

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 732
Location: West Haven
Drives:: 02 WRX Sedan MBP
you need a tune that has it
IIRC, 02-05 cars cant have anti-lag via a cobb OTS map/custom tune

you can get it through an open source tune/3rd party tune, though

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:47 am
Posts: 1063
Location: The car ahead of you....no way ahead of you
Drives:: 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII
can't remember the site I read a topic on Anti-lag but I read that the vf22 and vf30 were the best IHI series turbos for AL. I'll try and find it and post it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:18 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: Spanish Fork
Drives:: 1998 Rallybucket
ya don't get it unless you are competing and need it. Or unless you have tons of money to spare and can have fun showing it off and replacing things constantly

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:52 am
Posts: 333
Location: Clinton/ Layton
Drives:: 2006 WRX
2008 STi
The Cobb Accessport cannot do anti lag and im pretty sure the OS stuff cant either, they can do launch control and full throttle shifting. Youll need stand alone engine management (AEM, Hydra, etc....) to do ALS.

How ALS works taken from www.rallycars.com

When the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal the ignition timing is altered with sometimes 40° or more of delay (retard) and the intake air and fuel supply mixture is made richer. The inlet butterfly is kept slightly open or an air injector, bypassing the inlet butterfly, is used to maintain air supply to the engine. This results in air/fuel mixture that keeps getting in the combustion chambers when the driver no longer accelerates. The ignition being severely delayed, the air/fuel mixture reaches the exhaust tubes mostly unburned. When the spark plug fires, the exhaust valve is starting to open due to the ignition delay mentioned above. Additionally, the exhaust temperature being extremely high, the unburned fuel explodes at the contact of the exhaust tubes. Luckily the turbo sits right there and the explosion keeps it turning (otherwise it would slow down since its intake, the exhaust gases, is cut-off). The effect is vastly lower response times with some downsides:

* A quick rise of the turbocharger's temperature (which jumps from ~800°C to the 1100°C+ region) whenever the system is activated
* A huge stress on the exhaust manifold and pipes (mounted on a street car a bang-bang system would destroy the exhaust system within 50-100 km)
* The turbo produces significant boost even at engine idle speeds
* The explosions which occur in the exhaust tubes generate important flames which can, sometimes, be seen at the end of the exhaust tube
* Reduced engine brake

The ALS effect is mostly dependent on the quantity of air allowed into the engine, the more air supplied the more the ALS effect will be noticeable. Consequently ALS systems can be more or less aggressive. A mild ALS will maintain a 0 to 0.3 bar pressure in the inlet manifold when activated whereas, when inactive, the pressure in the inlet manifold with the throttle closed would be in the region of -1 bar (absolute vacuum). Racing ALS versions can maintain a pressure of up to 1.5 bar in the inlet manifold with the throttle closed.
While the systems mounted in Toyota and Mitsubishi racing cars are relatively smooth and noiseless those fitted in Ford and Subaru cars are much more noisy and aggressive.
The bang-bang system owns its name to the loud explosion noises one hears whenever the driver lifts off. Most racing implementations have user selectable anti-lag settings depending on the terrain, usually three settings can be selected by the driver going from mild to very aggressive.

Note that some regional or national European events prohibit the use of ALS systems while more and more WRC events regulate the noise levels allowed by competition cars effectively disabling ALS.

Starting in 2002 new anti-lag techniques, such as Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), are slowly overtaking the method described above as they are kinder on the engine's mechanical parts.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:22 pm
Posts: 3590
Location: Clinton
Drives:: 06 WRB STI!
And loves every minute of it!
Nice write up bh! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:06 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: North Ogden, Utah
if I ever have enough money to never worry about having to spend lots of it I'm doing it. It is freaking sweet.

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- Kenny

WRB STi - FP68hta turbo, Perrin FMIC, Prodrive 18" wheels, 800cc injectors etc

"Wer später bremst, ist länger schnell..."


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:07 am 
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SLCSUBARU.COM Ride of the Year, 2009
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:40 pm
Posts: 1083
Location: Park City
Drives:: 05 WRX Wagon
^ +1 (adding: if i rally the car and "....") i don't think it's really necessary on a road course. but still. it'd be so sick!

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Downtown SLC
Drives:: 2009 lightning red WRX hatch
I've always been curious how destroyed the WRC car turbos are after a hard couple of stages.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm
Posts: 187
ya anti lag would be awesome lol.. you can break boost your car its tough to do though. by giving your car gas and pressing the break a little. I have heard of people doin this. But I think it can also reset your knock sensor settings. So I guess your KS could pull a bunch of timing from doing it and ruin your tune lol. especially if the sensor got reset or messed up, not sure how true this knock sensor thing is but I do know that break boosting works.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:06 pm
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Location: North Ogden, Utah
Brake boosting makes absolutely no sense to me. You're holding the brake slightly to go faster? The ONLY time it would make sense to brake boost would be during a street race and that is gay in the first place. Unless I'm mistaken, this is worthless in any other situation no?

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- Kenny

WRB STi - FP68hta turbo, Perrin FMIC, Prodrive 18" wheels, 800cc injectors etc

"Wer später bremst, ist länger schnell..."


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm
Posts: 187
lol pretty much pointless in any other situation yes. works in street racing lol

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:40 pm
Posts: 1083
Location: Park City
Drives:: 05 WRX Wagon
i think he's referring to launching. like if you have an automatic.. stand on the brake as hard as you can, then press the gas as much as you can without moving the car.. let off brake+mash gas more=faster launch. i don't think that really applies to manuals tho... unless it's an anti lag thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:06 pm
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Location: North Ogden, Utah
idk

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- Kenny

WRB STi - FP68hta turbo, Perrin FMIC, Prodrive 18" wheels, 800cc injectors etc

"Wer später bremst, ist länger schnell..."


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 Post subject: Re: Anti-Lag
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Subie-in-Training

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm
Posts: 187
no. you do it while your on a roll. 2nd gear or third. try to maintain the same speed while pushing the break and the gas and give it more and more throttle until your boost starts climbing up then release the brake. I know some guy who use to do it with great success i wouldnt recommend it im just saying lol its ghetto anti lag

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